We need better enforcement ;)

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:11 pm

Here's a link to an atari forum where they talk about enforcers versus assualt rifles. Something needs to be done about the ARs. Read the posts. My post is near the bottom of the last page (page 3).

http://ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?s=4bb90dfcb9800f122fa3cb7eab8c8249&postid=4825654#post4825654

Perhaps, if enough votes go in SOMETHING will be done about them.

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:13 am

I disagree with people thinking the enforcers need to be brought back (starting weapons are made for keeping people off your ass, not for knocking 25 health in one shot off someone on the other side of the level), but I do agree the AR needs beefing somewhat (particularly the duals). Either more accuracy as you said, or bullets doing more damage (that being my personal favourite). However it does need to be kept distinctly different to the minigun in terms of function.

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:05 am

totaly agree. i want a diff model, tho i like the sound, dual grenades. and better acuuracy and more damage. yes i agree to that its more a defense weapons, but the singel should be defense, and dual offense. also you have a hard time getting duals, since no one uses the AR. so i think if you do find one, it better be good.

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:59 pm

Yeah I completely agree. The minigun takes care of close to medium range quite nicely and has the dmg and ammo amount to aid with that. The ARs have very little use aside from having something in your hands when you spawn in. When it comes to defense, though, I'd rather use the Shield gun. In gametypes like ONS the ARs have literally no use since there are plenty of weapon lockers around. I think I used the nades once and that was it.

One thing great about all the other weapons is they all have a use and I actually find myself switching weapons depending on the circumstances. However, not once have I switched to the ARs purposely. They need to have their accuracy increased (increased dmg just means painting a house with bigger holes) so that they can be medium range weapons. Right now the SG is better for close up and medium range versuses the ARs!

Keep it's dmg low since thats the purpose of the nades and minigun. But, rather give the ability to fire dual grenades to aid in dmg dispersement. Razz

As Cheetah said, I want to feel rewarded for finding that extra AR! Smile

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:20 pm

hehe, and today the day came, someone quoted me Razz

lol

whats the SG? you mean LG?

i always do 1 nade at spawn, and fire it into the distance, hoping for a lucky kill.. never heapend Razz

yeah, its cool i switch alot to, depens on where and who im figting.
in torlan, at spawn, when theres no vehicle, and you run on the wide open space to the node, i recommen a SR (shock rifle) becouse if a vehicle comes for you, you can hold it off from far away, and you can shoot at tank and hit him to, from far away. but after that its all flak baby Very Happy

ps. i think the stickey nades are a good idea, but not used that much, exept for stunts and boobietraps, and the spiders are not that commen either

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:57 pm

SG = Shield gun as that was the weapon I referred to earlier in my post Razz

.

Otherwise, I too use the shock and the mini secondary a lot. Link I save for repairing/building. Lightning is great for raptors and mantas.

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:54 pm

ah shield gun.. cuold have figured that uoit Smile

yeah, i alway use primarty on minigun. links for killing to tho. near nodes there always lockers, so i dont worry Razz

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:25 pm

Gah, went back to that thread again... those morons at AtariCommunity really do piss me off. They literally do just want a graphical update of the original UT with each new game... it's their fault we're now saddled with frickin' HyperBlast2 and the inclusion of the sniper rifle rendering the lightning gun defunct. Unfortunately I can't blame those nobs for the AVRiL, but I'd sure like to Razz

.

Anyway, I've been thinking about the assault rifles, and I reckon the best tweak would be to add more damage and perhaps widen their spread (while increasing their ROF to compensate a little for loss of accuracy). The minigun always requires some accuracy, and the secondary fire is perfect for long-range takedowns. Therefore, rather than increasing the assault rifle's accuracy to make it generally more efficient (and just making it more like a watered-down minigun), these changes would make it specialised for close-range combat (and as a consequence defence). The duals could perhaps have slightly better accuracy, because by the time you've found a second assault rifle, you want to be thinking about more than just defence.

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:35 pm

Sorry but the sniper doesn't make the LG obsolete. I would never use the sniper for vehicles yet I consistently use the LG for raptors and mantas. So I think they both have a place in the game. As for Avril if they didnt have it vehicles would be WAY too powerful. Besides if you use the vehicles how they are supposed to be used avrils can be dealt with quite well. Not to mention if you have support link repairing you with multiple links.

As for the AR it already sprays WAY too much. That thing has no accuracy whatsoever. Basically, I think the AR would benefit the most being a glorified enforcer in that it has good accuracy and ok ROF with lower dmg. I'd prefer to have dmg kept at its current level increase accuracy and if need be (to balance) reduce the ROF.

If we followed your recommendations (increase ROF and DMG) then we WOULD have another minigun. I don't see how that helps at all.

Also, making it more accurate when you pick up another AR makes little sense. Why would accuracy increase when now you only have one hand to stabilize and shoot the weapon?

Either way the AR needs somethign done with it so it has more use to it.

EDIT: also we already have a close quarters weapon that works very well.........we call it the Shield Gun Wink

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:14 pm

There's no reason to use the LG on any vehicle (or on anything for that matter) if you've got the sniperrifle. I remember seeing the weapon info a while back, the SR does about 10 less damage per shot and has something like 0.2 seconds less delay between shots, which makes it approximately equal to the LG- plus it's a bit less easy to tell where the shot came from. As far as I know, the LG doesn't do extra damage to vehicles.

Personally I think it's the AVRiL that's too powerful. It's not so bad vs Raptors maybe, but a Scorpion or Hellbender out in the open doesn't stand a chance. All the Goliath has as defence is its ludicrous amount of armour. With Mantas it depends on the situation. Fact is, a regular rocket launcher would add more skill to a ground-vehicle takedown, and at least using a shockrifle/sniper requires aim (not to mention they don't kill in 1/2 shots). You can't defend vs an AVRiL just by healing your vehicle when the rockets will blow up your vehicle in a couple of shots... I have to say though, being an Aliens vs Predator vet, by far my biggest gripe is that I mightily disapprove of anything that does the aiming for you. Smartguns, rocketlaunchers and plasmacasters wrecked AvP2, it's a shame to see something similar in another franchise...

So basically, you're saying the assault rifle should become an enforcer with a higher ROF? I thought you agreed with me that the AR should be a STARTING weapon, not a sniping weapon! Assault rifles are made for defence, so higher dmg would do the job perfectly. I did add a "perhaps" for the wider bullet spread idea though, just a suggestion. The accuracy/spread's probably fine as it is. With the duals though, yes increased accuracy would be good.

The increase in ROF was to compensate for the bullets spreading over a wider area, so in practise it wouldn't function at all like a mini unless the enemy was right in your face, only it would be more powerful than the mini in that situation. Serves the bugger right for trying to spawnkill. Razz

Unreal isn't about realism. I don't care if in real life your aim's less stable with two assault rifles, it would add to the gameplay and that's what counts. Besides, people wouldn't really notice if it's done properly: the guns would just seem more powerful, as they should be.

Yah the shield gun's fine, but anyone with any rocket skill at all can pick you off easily the second you veer in their direction. Flak being right at the other end of the scale (an ultra-high-damage accuracy weapon, or spammer's paradise 2ndary), there's still plenty of room for another close-range weapon.

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:11 am

just adding to the bottom part of what Sir just said...my favorite technique to use against the shield gun is firing and shock combo right above, beside or behind the guy in the shield gun.

And I agree that the AR should have a lil more accuracy, and I think the two grenade thing would be pretty good, too.

But I'm not a UT99 vet, I start with 2k3 - but I have been fortunate to have played the original several times, though. I remember the enforcers vaguely, but I have heard of them...theres a mutator floating around from awhile ago thats compatible with 2k3 that has the enforcers in it, though. ^_^;

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:14 am

i still die when i use shield.. so why not use normal weapons on it?
and its a pain in the ass to do shock combos while you or target moves.